Minka: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to Minka Guides. This month we’re talking about one of the most common questions I’m asked: where are all the polyamorous people over the age of 40?
I’m so delighted to have the dating and relationship coach (and renowned compersion researcher), Dr Marie Thouin, here with us today.
Welcome, Marie.
Dr Marie Thouin (she/her): Hi. Thank you so much for having me, Minka.
Minka: I’m so glad to have you here.
Why don’t you introduce yourself to everybody so they know a little bit more about you?
Dr Marie Thouin: Absolutely. So, I am a dating and relationship coach and I help folks who are anywhere on the monogamy/non-monogamy spectrum/any background. I love to just help people create an intentional and vibrant love life.
I also have been studying compersion for many years now, starting with my PhD that I published in 2021 and now having done a lot more work for a book that will be coming out in 2024.
Minka: How exciting.
Dr Marie Thouin: So, for people who don’t know compersion, it’s basically empathic joy in consensually non-monogamous relationships. So, I’m super excited to be bringing more attention to that concept.
Minka: Absolutely. Especially because it’s one of those concepts that we usually only talk about within the polyamorous community. So it’s really such a wonderful thing to have it out there in a book so people beyond the community can begin to understand and appreciate it.
Dr Marie Thouin: Yeah, exactly.
Minka: So speaking of the polyamorous community. It’s really interesting that quite often I receive messages on Instagram from people who are in their 40s and 50s, and sometimes even 60s, saying “Yay! Great that there are more and more polyamorous people. But really, where are the people our age?” They often find themselves struggling to find people to date even within their own age gap bracket.
So, I wondered if you knew of some of the reasons why it could seem like there are fewer polyamorous people who are aged 40+.
Dr Marie Thouin: There’s good news and bad news, I would say.
The good news is that there’s actually not a statistical gap in terms of who is polyamorous and who is not in terms of age. If you take a sample of polyamorous people and a sample of monogamous people, they’re equally distributed across ages. So it’s not that there aren’t non-monogamous people over forty. It’s just that they might be a little bit harder to find. I think because it’s a little bit harder to be out.
Minka: Exactly.
Dr Marie Thouin: You have more to lose. People in their 40s and above might have bigger jobs. They might have children. They might have reputations to maintain. There’s a little bit less acceptance in our society so far for those age groups to be out and public in their identity as non-monogamous versus people who are in their 20s and early 30s.
There’s now more of a broad acceptance, and that goes along with the acceptance of different identities like gender diversity and sexual orientation diversity, which is really good. It’s more and more accepted for all age groups. But of course, younger age groups have more of a fluidity in being out. They might have less to lose.
So then the question is, how do you find those folks who might not be so public about their identity?
Minka: Yes.
Dr Marie Thouin: I always recommend having a broad range of ways that you can meet new people. Of course, online, there are a lot of different apps that cater to non-monogamy, and some allow different levels of privacy, which is great.
OKCupid and Feeld are some of my favourites, and they do allow you to go incognito if you don’t want to be discovered by everyone or anyone. You can only discovered by people who are also non-monogamous, so you know it provides a layer of privacy there.
And then, of course, there are polyamory meetups and online communities that are really great for that. So yeah, people are out there.
Minka: Yes, I think that’s a really good point because I think a lot of the time when people start first looking for partners, the natural idea these days is to go to dating apps. And if you do and then you search for people within a few years of yourself, and it comes up with like two or three people, then it can be very discouraging.
But then I think that’s one of the things. I’m going to be 43 soon, and I only started using dating apps in the last couple of years because I’d been in long-term monogamous relationships. I think people even older are probably not as accustomed to seeing that as a way of dating or their natural first place to go to look.
So, I think you’re right. Events are a great idea for meeting other people within your community or in an online community.
Dr Marie Thouin: Absolutely, and of course, geography has a lot to do with that. I’m in the San Francisco Bay Area, and I can personally testify that the non-monogamous community here is very diverse. In all aspects of identity, including age. You know, if you go to a polyamory meetup in the Bay Area, in my experience, there are going to be people from their 20s to their 60s, 70s and even sometimes 80s.
Minka: Amazing!
Yeah, exactly. I think sometimes the events are really good for that because they help you to realise that there are people out there of the same age group. But also some of those people might not be looking for new partners. They might be going to those events but not necessarily looking for new people because it’s understandable that people of a certain age might already be quite partnered up.
So I think that’s also something that could be a factor in trying to find other people within your age bracket. People’s lives are a lot more established in a sense, so that could also be affecting it as well.
Dr Marie Thouin: Right? Some people might not have the bandwidth.
Minka: Exactly.
Dr Marie Thouin: The flip side of that, though is there’s also a lot of people who have been in monogamous marriages who divorce or become widowed and realise that they don’t really want or need monogamy anymore. I’ve heard a lot of stories from folks in their 40s and up who have really gone through that identity transition and realised, “You know, I don’t think monogamy is for me, or at least not for me right now,” and are exploring non-monogamy in increasing numbers.
Minka: Exactly. Yes, which I think is why there’s that element of reasons to be hopeful.
I think there’s the part that you’re saying statistically, even though it might feel like there aren’t people around that are of your age group. They are statistically there. Then also that society is changing and people are changing, and social acceptance is changing and so gradually we might see more and more people being open about their lifestyle.
Dr Marie Thouin: Right.
Minka: Do you think there are other reasons to be hopeful? Does anything else spring to mind?
Dr Marie Thouin: Yeah, I think that there is a lot to gain for people in higher age groups to be non-monogamous. I just did some original research on that for my book, actually. The intersection of compersion and age.
Minka: Oh wow.
Dr Marie Thouin: It’s so exciting because it seems that there is a positive correlation, and that would be for two reasons. One is that for people who are ageing… I actually interviewed Kathy Labriola, who is an expert on polyamory and ageing. She wrote a whole book called Polyamorous Elders: Aging in Open Relationships, where she explained to me how oftentimes, when people are older, they need more care. They need more community. They need more people to rely on, and then it becomes so fantastic to have a community of metamors and lovers and have more of these very intimate bonded relationships.
If there is a nuclear family, a nuclear couple, and one of them needs a lot of care, then the other person becomes a 24/7 caretaker.
Minka: Yes.
Dr Marie Thouin: That is very difficult, versus if there are more people to really be interconnected and take care of each other then it promotes a lot of compersion. It really makes sense.
Minka: Absolutely.
Dr Marie Thouin: Then the other reason why age and compersion could correlate is there’s so much of a good reason to do it. Those kinds of hot buttons of insecurities of, “Hey, am I pretty enough? Am I handsome enough? That kind of comparison that oftentimes we have in lower ages can start to diminish as people get older. They might feel a little bit more secure in themselves and have worn down those hot buttons. It’s not, of course, a guarantee. People can carry insecurities for lifetimes. But there is something about older age.
I was just actually chatting with some girlfriends of mine yesterday, and they’re a little bit older. They’re in their 50s, and they were telling me, “Hey, you have a lot to look forward to in your 40s and 50s because you start not caring as much what people think. You’re not as insecure about yourself and your body etc. So, that is a good reason to also consider polyamory, as those insecurities might be less impactful.
Minka: Exactly, those are definitely reasons to be hopeful. Also, very encouraging reasons looking towards the second half of life and how polyamory can work really well within that stage of life.
So, if someone is starting to date again and starting to date for the first time polyamorously and they want to meet people who are within a certain bracket around their age – say a few years older and a few years younger…
What are some tips or ways that they can have a dating strategy to try and find people much more within their own age group?
Dr Marie Thouin: Well, of course, if you’re going to be dating online, you can start with setting up your apps for that age group and see who shows up.
Then really visit all of the polyamory or non-monogamy communities that you can find in your geographical area. There’s no way to really predict who is going to be part of those communities until you attend some events and see who’s there.
Minka: Yes.
Dr Marie Thouin: There’s no magic formula to that. It’s just really about doing the footwork of searching for who is around, who is there and not giving up too quickly.
Oftentimes, people who haven’t dated in a long time might try for a few weeks and, “Oh my gosh, I don’t find anyone. That is not working.” We need some patience, and we also need to put some value in the process.
As a dating coach, I always tell people dating is not a waste of time until you find your person or that person that you’re looking for. It is a valuable process of introspection, of inquiry of creating connections with different kinds of people that you would not normally meet in your everyday life. So try to make that process as valuable as possible. Don’t get discouraged too quickly.
Minka: Absolutely.
I think there’s also value when people start being polyamorous, they don’t realise how much value there is in having friends who are also approaching life in the same way. So if you start dating and you start to go to community events, and you don’t necessarily meet people that you want to form romantic or sexual bonds with immediately – but you meet other people your own age who are also polyamorous, there really is value. How important it is to have like-minded people around because that can be really good for having these kinds of conversations and swapping tips and all of that.
But also, I’ve always wanted to have a dinner party where I invite only polyamorous people over the age of 40 and then get them to invite somebody that they know from the community as well. As a way of community building which is a good idea. But then also you never know who you might meet through doing that. So, I think there are always ways that you can be proactive to try and build that network and community of your own age group as well.
Dr Marie Thouin: Oh my gosh! I love that so much. That, to me, is actually the ultimate advice: to become a community hub. To become the kind of person who people are comfortable coming to and introducing other people and creating a buzz around community.
It’s the advice I always give to people who complain like, “Hey, there’s not a community around me that has the kind of characteristics that I would like.” The answer is: create it.
Minka: Yes. Exactly.
Dr Marie Thouin: You can create it if you’re not finding it. There are probably a lot of other people who will be very grateful for you creating that, and it doesn’t have to cost much money. You know you can have a potluck in your house or at a park. It can be so simple.
Minka: Yes, exactly. I one hundred per cent agree.
Also, I suppose there’s the flip side to this: a lot of people who are in their 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s may end up dating people who are quite a bit younger than them.
For example, I have a partner who’s nine years younger than me and that’s come about for the fact that I often end up dating that bit younger. I would love to meet people my own age, but I still do find it quite hard. So, I think it’s also a part of the conversation.
What are some key things to think about when approaching dating with a large age gap?
Thinking about how different ages may influence how that relationship goes.
Dr Marie Thouin: Well, I like to approach it in the same way that I would approach a multicultural relationship, where there is a cultural gap with a lot of curiosity. A lot of openness, letting go of assumptions and the willingness to communicate a lot.
I think sometimes, when we date someone who is similar to ourselves, whether it’s in terms of age or culture, we don’t feel like we need to communicate as much because there’s a lot of common ground, common understanding, and it’s comfortable.
Minka: Yes.
Dr Marie Thouin: It’s comfortable to date someone who looks like us or who has the same background in some way. But, of course, it does not always happen and it doesn’t mean that love will be less exciting or the connection will be less exciting. We just need to expand our comfort zone to include someone who has that kind of different background. Asking a lot of questions about who they are and really exploring the connection with an open mind.
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with age-gap relationships. In fact, they can be really amazing. I have had some of them, and I know a lot of good friends who have age-gap relationships. I think removing the stigma also from that, you know, there’s a lot of social judgment. Especially in hetero relationships. For women to date younger men, they can be called a cougar. There’s a lot of judgment, and that is totally misplaced. Long-term friends of mine have an age-gap relationship. The woman is 20 years older, and they’ve been together for at least 20 years, if not more, and they have an amazing relationship.
Minka: Wow!
Dr Marie Thouin: Emmanuel Macron, the French president, has an age-gap relationship which I’m so glad that he’s helped normalize that a little bit and just having an open mind.
Minka: Yes, exactly.
As you say, communication is important. I think communicating about expectations is important because they may differ where people are at different stages in their lives, and you may forget that. You may be at the point where you want to have children, but your partner might be at a different stage in their life or other things that may influence that.
But then the flip side is that I’m someone whose life, in my 40s, doesn’t look that different from someone who’s in their early 30s because I don’t have many commitments. I’m quite freewheeling, and I’m not really focused on anything that people would normally associate with being in your 40s or 50s in terms of big career goals or buying a house or anything like that. So for me, my life doesn’t necessarily look too dissimilar. My expectations aren’t too dissimilar from someone of a different age, but that could be different for you, depending on who you are and where you’re at.
Obviously, I think it’s always good to acknowledge those differences and particularly if perhaps the person who’s older has a higher income, for example, so there might be a financial difference in the relationship. Also acknowledging if that age difference brings in any kind of power imbalances. For example, if the older person has a lot more experience with polyamory or just relationships in general or something like that, that could bring in some sense of a power imbalance in there.
So it’s always good to kind of be mindful and acknowledge those things. But also, I think that a lot of time, once you start learning to navigate that in that partnership then you figure those things out pretty quickly as you go along.
Exactly. Yeah, it’s all about communication and openness and transparency being really transparent about who we are and also knowing that relationships are not a one-size-fits-all. Some relationships might be really wonderful for a season, and some of them for a lifetime. Some of them are relationships that you want to entangle your life with, and some of them might be more like comet relationships where you see each other, and you don’t really engage in family planning and merging finances with that person. There are so many different shades and shapes of relationships that can be beautiful and valuable and and sacred.
Minka: Yes, I think that’s one of the things that really I love about polyamory is we already automatically talk about expectations. So someone who is rolling up to dating might be solo polyamorous (so they have no interest in cohabiting or sharing finances). Or you might have somebody who has been partnered up with a nesting partner for a really long time and owns a house. So their expectations might differ.
So we’re already kind of quite used to having those conversations around such things, which means I think that we probably head into age-gap relationships with a little bit more self-awareness and understanding about what we’re looking for and how we are looking for people to maybe fit into our lives and stuff like that as well. So I suppose that’s one of the benefits of already being so big on communication.
Dr Marie Thouin: Exactly. Yes, it’s just like a further process of leaving all the cultural assumptions aside and creating the life that we really want in an intentional way.
Minka: Exactly.
So, do you have any final thoughts or tips or anything that you would want to give to anybody who’s watching this and is in their 40s, 50s, 60s, or 70s?
Dr Marie Thouin: Well, I would really emphasise the value of community because having friends, even if it’s virtual friends who can relate, who can share advice, who can share space with us, is always super important in order to not lose hope. In order to be validated in that kind of counter-cultural identity that we’re carrying.
So, even for folks who do not have immediately close geographical communities available, I would encourage you to go online and join some CNM (consensually non-monogamous) communities. One that I often recommend is the Normalizing Non-Monogamy Community. It’s led by my friends Emma and Finn, who have the Normalizing Non-Monogamy podcast.
I know there are a lot more. There are Facebook communities. There are Patreon communities associated with some podcasts. Multiamory, I believe, has a Patreon community that is a great place for questions to be asked and community to be built. So, I would start there and have that as a foundation for not feeling alone.
If you can also work with a coach, that can be a really big boon – and of course, that’s what I do. I help people find creative ways to date and find people and find themselves in the process. I think dating and relationship is always a very internal process as well as an external one. It’s very valuable in itself. So, really try to enjoy the process as much as possible, even when frustration arises.
Minka: Absolutely.
Well, on that note, Marie, where can people find you and the work that you do?
Dr Marie Thouin: So I have a couple of different websites.
One is all about compersion, and people can find it at www.whatiscompersion.com. There is also a tab for my coaching work. If people are more curious about dating coaching, specifically go to www.loveinsight-dating.com. If you just want one place to connect with me and get all of these things, go to my Instagram, and it’s @love_insight_dating. If this is all too confusing, just Google my name, Marie Thouin, and you’ll probably find all of this.
I do offer a 30-minute free introductory session for anyone who is interested in coaching and wants to meet me. I would love to connect with folks.
Minka: That’s great and if you’re watching this on Instagram, there will be that link across to Marie’s Instagram there. If you’re watching this on YouTube or on my blog, all of those links will be available either in the show notes or in the link through the blog.
So that’s wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation today Marie. I really appreciate it and I do hope that people out there have found it useful as well.
Dr Marie Thouin: Thank you. Yes I’m wishing a lot of wonderful love and success and friendships and goodness to everyone who is watching.
Minka: Absolutely. Thank you. Bye!
Dr Marie Thouin: Thank you.
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